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Post by instructor on Sept 18, 2012 15:55:05 GMT -5
Chapter 12 - Criminal Law and Business
For your Discussion assignment for chapter 12, please read the case at 12.2, Schmuck v. United States. Answer the three questions at the end of the case.
Post your response by replying to this forum thread or by replying to a classmate's comments.
Please see your syllabus for the requirements for the discussion forum so you will get full credit.
This forum will close at 11:59 PM on Tuesday, September 25, after which time you will not be allowed to post.
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Post by clepps1 on Sept 19, 2012 23:54:42 GMT -5
The fraud that takes place in this case is the fact the dealer falsified, concealed, tricked and overed up the fact that the odometer readings had been altered by a guy so that the readings read less than what they were which allowed him to sell cars under false pretenses. He used deception to benefit financially from unsuspecting customers. The owner of the car lot had to use the mail for the titles that had to mailed to the Department of Transportation. The titles enclosed false imformation of the odometer readings. The titles were need for the purchasing of tags for the cars. Schmuck was attaining these titles knowingly and with specific intent to decieve his customers. The Supreme Court concluded that it was mail fraud because the title-registration were a huge part of the fraudulent scheme althought it did not become fraud until the dealers resold the cars and the transfer of the titles were exchanged. The titles were not the main part of the scheme but were essential to completing the full fraudulent act.
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Post by bcald20 on Sept 21, 2012 16:04:23 GMT -5
1. The factual basis of Schmuck's scheme was that he was buying used cars, rolling back the odometers so they looked like they had less miles, and selling them to Wisconsin Retail Dealers for way more than they were worth. 2.The mail was associated with this because the Wisconsin Retail dealers were sending in applications by mail to the Wisconsin Department of Transportation with false information in them that all lead back to Schmuck's scheme. 3.The Supreme Court concludes that mail fraud does exist because even though the registration form mailings may not have contributed directly, they were stil necessary to the passage of the title, which was essential to Schmuck's scheme.
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Post by mmjhnsn7 on Sept 22, 2012 21:53:47 GMT -5
The factual basis of Schmuck's scheme was the deception of rolling back the odometers of used cars with the intent of making them appear to have less miles than they actually did. He then in turn sold these misleading automobiles to Wisconsin dealers.
The mail was associated because with the dealers who purchased the cars from Schmuck were purchasing them with the sole purpose of selling them. So, the title application to the Wisconsin Department of Safety was essential in completing the sells.
The supreme court is concluding that mail fraud exists because the completion of the title transfer the was the finale in Schmuck's scheme.
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Post by dphelps1223 on Sept 24, 2012 17:12:00 GMT -5
The factual basis was that Schmuck was buying cars and then rolling back the odometer to make the mileage seem low, thus transferring this information to paper and mailing it to the WDOT. He than sold these automobiles to retail dealers with false information.
The mail he mailed this information to the WDOT, the mail became associated with it. The mail was also involved when the retail dealers mailed in the title-application for the automobile. The submission form supplied the mailing element of the fraud.
Mail fraud existed because the retail dealers resold the cars and applied for transfers of titles which were part of the execution of the the scheme. The odometer readings had already been mailed to WDOT. The "mailings" in the case satisfy the mailing element of the mail fraud offense.
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Post by bjlong on Sept 24, 2012 19:58:22 GMT -5
In this case of Schmuck vs U.S. is that Schmuch was purchasing used cars and rolling back the odometer readings to make it look like the cars have low mileage readings. Then they would sell these automobiles to Wisconsin retail dealers.
The mail was used when the title application had to be sent in. The mail is counter productive in that it creates a paper trail from which the fraud may be discovered.
The Supreme Court concludes that mail fraud exists because the registration-form mailings may not have contributed directly, but they were essential and necessary to the perpetuation of Schmuck's scheme.
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Post by elizabethamathews on Sept 24, 2012 22:10:19 GMT -5
The factual basis is that Schmuck was buying used cars, rolling back their odometers, and selling them to other car dealers knowing the odometer readings were false. Unknowingly, these car dealers resold the cars with the false odometer readings. The customers then paid money based on the false odometer readings.
The car dealers had to submit a title application to the Wisconsin Department of Transportation in order to complete a sale. Without a title application, the car dealer could not hand the title over and the customer would not be able to obtain Wiconsin tags. Because the car dealers mailed these applications, mail was associated with this situation.
The Supreme Court found that mail fraud existed in the case because, even though the mailings did not contribute directly, they were necessary in fulfilling Schmuck's scheme. The car dealers had no knowledge of the falsified information on the title application but Schmuck was the one who gave the false odometer readings.
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Post by clintbeilke on Sept 25, 2012 12:22:22 GMT -5
In the case of U.S. v. Schmuck; Schmuck bought used cars, altered the odometer, and sold the cars to Wisconsin retail dealers. This resulted in the car dealers reselling cars with bad odometer readings. The title applications were then mailed to the Wisconsin Department of Transportation by the dealers in order that they might resell the vehicles. However, Schmuck had falsified information on the title application in order to make a financial gain. The Supreme Court decided that Schmuck had committed mail fraud because, although the fraudulent title applications alone were not the epicenter of his scheme, he needed the false documents to successfully complete the act.
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Post by elizabethamathews on Sept 25, 2012 17:46:57 GMT -5
The fraud that takes place in this case is the fact the dealer falsified, concealed, tricked and overed up the fact that the odometer readings had been altered by a guy so that the readings read less than what they were which allowed him to sell cars under false pretenses. He used deception to benefit financially from unsuspecting customers. The owner of the car lot had to use the mail for the titles that had to mailed to the Department of Transportation. The titles enclosed false imformation of the odometer readings. The titles were need for the purchasing of tags for the cars. Schmuck was attaining these titles knowingly and with specific intent to decieve his customers. The Supreme Court concluded that it was mail fraud because the title-registration were a huge part of the fraudulent scheme althought it did not become fraud until the dealers resold the cars and the transfer of the titles were exchanged. The titles were not the main part of the scheme but were essential to completing the full fraudulent act. I agree. The decision on this case was pretty definite. Schmuck provided the false information knowingly to car dealers in Wisconsin. But because the title applications had to be mailed, it became mail fraud. |
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Post by melston on Sept 25, 2012 18:04:40 GMT -5
The factual basis of this scheme was that Schmuck knew he was doing wrong or committing an unlawful act when he set back the odometers. He then sold the cars knowing the milage was wrong. He also knew that the car could not be transferred to another persons name until they had the title.
The mail is associated with this because to finalize the purchase of the cars/truck/etc that he sold with the wrong odometer readings, there would have to be some type of mail/wire fraud in there with it.
Schmuck tried to play it off to where he would get off easier by saying he did not actually create the mail/wire fraud. In all reality the supreme court concludes that mail fraud was committed because tampering with the odometer could not be separated with the mail fraud. They were both part of one bigger scheme. The two were inherently related.
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Post by melston on Sept 25, 2012 18:10:22 GMT -5
The factual basis is that Schmuck was buying used cars, rolling back their odometers, and selling them to other car dealers knowing the odometer readings were false. Unknowingly, these car dealers resold the cars with the false odometer readings. The customers then paid money based on the false odometer readings. The car dealers had to submit a title application to the Wisconsin Department of Transportation in order to complete a sale. Without a title application, the car dealer could not hand the title over and the customer would not be able to obtain Wiconsin tags. Because the car dealers mailed these applications, mail was associated with this situation. The Supreme Court found that mail fraud existed in the case because, even though the mailings did not contribute directly, they were necessary in fulfilling Schmuck's scheme. The car dealers had no knowledge of the falsified information on the title application but Schmuck was the one who gave the false odometer readings. Wow! Your explanations were really clear. I agree with everything you said. I forgot to put in mine that the car dealers that Schmuck sold the cars to with the wrong odometers were not in the wrong since they bought the cars from Schmuck unknowingly. |
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naman
New Member
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Post by naman on Sept 25, 2012 18:41:33 GMT -5
1. The factual basis is that Schmuck bought a used car and turned back the odometer to increase the value of the car. He then would knowingly sell these cars to dealers and customers would buy the cars on the basis of the mileage on the car.
2. The mail fraud comes into play because in order to receive the title of the car; the dealer had to submit a title application. These applications were mailed and it left a trail of were the cars changed hands and the condition of the cars. So this document would have had to been falsified in order to sell a car.
3. The Supreme Court concluded that the mail fraud existed because it was necessary to mail the application in order for his scheme to be successful.
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Post by bjlong on Sept 25, 2012 20:05:11 GMT -5
The factual basis is that Schmuck was buying used cars, rolling back their odometers, and selling them to other car dealers knowing the odometer readings were false. Unknowingly, these car dealers resold the cars with the false odometer readings. The customers then paid money based on the false odometer readings. The car dealers had to submit a title application to the Wisconsin Department of Transportation in order to complete a sale. Without a title application, the car dealer could not hand the title over and the customer would not be able to obtain Wiconsin tags. Because the car dealers mailed these applications, mail was associated with this situation. The Supreme Court found that mail fraud existed in the case because, even though the mailings did not contribute directly, they were necessary in fulfilling Schmuck's scheme. The car dealers had no knowledge of the falsified information on the title application but Schmuck was the one who gave the false odometer readings. Wow! Your explanations were really clear. I agree with everything you said. I forgot to put in mine that the car dealers that Schmuck sold the cars to with the wrong odometers were not in the wrong since they bought the cars from Schmuck unknowingly. I agree with everything you said. I didn't catch the fact that Schmuck sold the cars to dealership and they didn't know Schmuck scheme about the false odometer readings. |
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Post by jyork1 on Sept 25, 2012 20:44:38 GMT -5
The factual basis of Schmucks scheme is that he was buying used cars, rolling back the odometer, then selling the cars with the new odometer readings to car dealers in Wisconsin.
Mail was associated with this situation in that the dealers had to submit a title application via mail to the Department of Transportaion to complete the sale of the car.
The Supreme Court found that mail fraud existed in this case because the relationships Schmuck built with the dealers and depended on the successful passage of the tatile to the differect parties, this passage was the mail.
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Post by tristacarrington on Sept 25, 2012 21:45:46 GMT -5
1. Schmuck was rolling back the odometers on used cars to increase their value and then selling these cars to car dealers in WI for more than they were worth. The car dealers were then selling the cars to the general public at a higher price due to Schmuck’s initial acts.
2. Schmuck was mailing the titles to the vehicles; without the proper title form being mailed, the cars could have never sold.
3. The Supreme Court concludes that without Schmuck mailing the titles, the vehicles would have never been able to be sold; therefore, because the titles were mailed is a direct relation to the sale of the fraudulent vehicles.
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